Rush Hour

Dealing with Doubt | How should we respond when we have questions in our faith?

• RushChurch • Season 1 • Episode 4

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A fall calendar packed with community fun sets the stage for a conversation many of us avoid: what do we do with doubt? We open with Fall Fest details, a student-focused 5K, and a painfully funny tailgate coffee fail, then move into the heart-level questions that shape a resilient faith. Along the way, we reframe familiar stories—Moses’ calling, David and Goliath, Doubting Thomas, and Peter on the water—so they land in our modern lives with fresh clarity and comfort.

We talk about how real study can turn the “Sunday school stories” into lived wisdom, and how the Old Testament is anything but dull once you see the fire, grit, and grace running through it. David doesn’t just model courage; he points to Jesus, the true champion who fights what we cannot. Thomas doesn’t get shamed; he gets invited to see. Peter doesn’t drown in failure; he’s lifted by a hand stronger than the storm. Those scenes anchor a simple truth: doubt isn’t the enemy when it leads us closer to Christ.

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SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Rush Hour. This is Rush Church Podcast, episode four. I'm here today with Britney Oglesby, Cody Cottle, and I'm Ashley Phillips. And we are here to just talk a little bit about the Bible, talk a little bit about what's going on at Rush Church and some fun things that we did over the weekend. So, Cody, do you have any announcements for us?

SPEAKER_00:

Announcement time. It's fall, and we have Fall Fest coming up on October 25th. That'll be the same day as the Rush Run 5K. We've already established that none of us are going to be running in that race.

SPEAKER_01:

None of us are running. No.

SPEAKER_00:

Brittany, have you changed your mind? No. No. People will be running, but not us. I do know a lot of people that are running. Yeah. We're glad that you like to run and that you're going to. But the Rush Run 5K is designed to raise money for student stuff at Rush Church.

SPEAKER_01:

And so I've actually talked to some experienced runners that have done our 5K and they said it's a little the hills are a little hard.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I've heard the same thing. Yeah. Actually, I've ran this 5K myself. And so it's I don't remember. It can be challenging. It's really challenging. But to experienced runners who do 5Ks all the time, this is a challenging course. There's hills that's out and back. And so, but yeah, we raise money for the student ministry with this event. And so come out and support us and come out and help us out, just set up or whatever. But that's October 25th that morning. And then right after that, it's the fall festival. I'm right out back by the pond. And we'll have games. Ashley, what else we have?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so we'll have a fire going. You guys can roast hot dogs and marshmallows. Uh we've got a lot of carnival games to play for prizes, and we've got our obstacle course going up. We'll be making cotton candy and popcorn and serving hot chocolate and probably some apple cider too. I I love apple cider, so yeah, it'll be a fun time. Fun for all the family, all ages. Oh, we also have a train coming. So Mr. Joe's gonna be driving the train this year. No, I mean, but it'll go around the it'll go around the yard.

SPEAKER_00:

For little kids.

SPEAKER_02:

Little kids, yeah. I mean maybe an adult can fit in it.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Oh, I got I tried. I couldn't get out last night. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

No adults, but kids, maybe smaller teenagers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Sounds like a fun time.

SPEAKER_02:

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. What else do we have going on besides the fall fest and rush run 5K?

SPEAKER_01:

That's our next big thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Next big thing. Well, that's right. What else do you like about fall though?

SPEAKER_01:

I love the colors. Yes. Um, I did decorate the church t today. Yeah, so that was fun. How does it look? Looks wonderful. I think it looks good. Looks really good.

SPEAKER_02:

She made a really cool picture, a family picture background. So you can yeah, take some pictures in front of.

SPEAKER_01:

Although Katrina wants them, she has other plans for them after Fall Fest. So they'll be up for a couple weeks, but okay. Big plans. She has big plans. No, it does belong to her. I guess she can have that.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But the church is looking good, decorated for fall. I like fall. Today is a nice fall day. It's like 60, cloudy, makes me sleepy. I stopped and got a maple pecan latte before I came. It's really good. Except when I took a drink, I had to chew it, and I wasn't expecting that.

SPEAKER_01:

It actually sounds kind of good.

SPEAKER_00:

It is good. And I didn't unexpect little chopped-up pecans on top of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so that was the chewy pot. That's the chewy part.

SPEAKER_00:

The pecans, actual pecans on top. So it's actually quite nice. But yeah. So that's fall. What else are we gonna have going on?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, speaking of coffee, I mean, we did just serve coffee at our tailgate last Friday. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

We did.

SPEAKER_01:

That was fun.

SPEAKER_02:

It was fun. You know, our heart was in the right place. We really wanted to serve these teenagers coffee that they love. And it Thursday, when I made it, it was wonderful coffee. It was creamy, it was smooth, it was very yummy iced coffee, but something happened between Thursday and Friday. And it tasted like sour milk.

SPEAKER_00:

Which we didn't discover.

SPEAKER_01:

No, we did not discover until after we had served 50 iced coffees. To these teenagers. To the teenagers and family members.

SPEAKER_02:

If you had an iced coffee from Tailgate with Rush Church, I want to say I'm so sorry. That was not our intention to put a bad flavor in your mouth. That is not how iced coffee is supposed to taste, nor did it taste like that the day before. Those of you who got hot chocolate, feel blessed because you did not have to wear it. The awful taste of iced coffee.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think I don't know. I had some ice, I had two iced coffees and I thought, huh, it tastes a little off, but I like iced coffee. And so I just put some more caramel flavor in it and drank it all.

SPEAKER_02:

Um even my son had it too. Haley texted me, she's like, Did you try to poison these teenagers? I was like, What? No.

SPEAKER_01:

Not knowingly.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, we we had another tailgate and we gave out hot chocolate and we dumped the iced coffee once we figured out it was a lot of ice coffee, too.

SPEAKER_02:

And Brittany's sister tried to warn us, but we didn't. She did. It was just her.

SPEAKER_01:

I thought she was just really uh particular about her iced coffee. That's what I think. And that ours wasn't good enough. Right. So I just quietly tried to shush her in the corner. Right. And I ignored it. It's fine. Then I apologized.

SPEAKER_00:

It was not fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it turns out she tried to save us, but we didn't listen, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Other than that, the tailgates have been going really good. Yeah. Yeah. We did a homecoming. We tossed out all those footballs that maybe you got one of those. Those were cool. Oh, we got rid of all 500 of them. Yeah, that's crazy. It was crazy. They were everywhere. Yeah. But uh, we have one more tailgate on the 24th. And we're probably just gonna stick to hot chocolate, probably. Because it's supposed to be pretty cool that day, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, it went really well. Yeah. It was good hot chocolate.

SPEAKER_00:

See how we can see what else we can do there.

SPEAKER_01:

So yep.

SPEAKER_00:

You guys want to talk a little bit about the Bible today? Sure. Oh my goodness. Do you guys have any like favorite parts of the Bible? Like a favorite story or a favorite section of the Bible that you enjoy the most? Brittany, you're kind of new to the Bible, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, a little bit. I mean, I always knew like the I call them the nursery rhyme Bible stories.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like Sunday school stories.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Sunday school stories. But probably in the last couple years, I mean it's probably been three years now of like real study, which you would think you'd be done but with a lot in three years, but I don't even think I'm halfway through.

SPEAKER_00:

No, there's always I mean, I have a degree in Bible. I've been in ministry for 14 years and I learn new stuff all the time. Yeah. It's wild that you can go to the Bible again and again and come away with something new.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, my that first Life of Christ study that I did, I mean, I think it was like over two years, but it was just Sunday mornings when we went into so much detail, and then now reading the New Testament again and going back through the Gospels, I'm like, wait, I still have questions. How is that possible that I still don't know everything that there is to know about it? So but I like a lot of parts. I like the Old Testament stuff that we're doing in our staff study.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we've been doing Tuesday morning Bible studies together at church, you and me and John and Ashley and Katrina. And we've been well, in the old testament a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Which I thought I would think was so boring. I thought they are not boring. No, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02:

I couldn't fire and wrath and arguing and complaining, and but life and happiness and growth and the old testament is not boring.

SPEAKER_00:

No people think old testament, they think like there are some boring parts where it just has lists of numbers or like genealogies and stuff, and then but there's so much stuff there. So we've gone through Genesis and then we did Exodus and Leviticus. You think Leviticus, you think that's gotta be boring, but you get into it a little bit. It's got some cool, some cool stuff behind it. Now we're in numbers, aren't we? So yeah. What else do you like about the Bible, Ashley? Have a favorite story or a favorite section of the Bible that you go to?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was thinking about what I mean, there's a lot of stories in the Bible, but some of that maybe be my favorite or one that I related to the most was probably with the woman getting healed by just touching the garment when it had the blood disorder.

SPEAKER_00:

I do like that one. Jesus does a lot of signs and miracles, and that one always stands out to me just the way that she trusted Jesus even before she even knew him. She's like, I've heard about this guy, and I know that he can he's been doing miraculous things, he's been healing, and if I could just touch his robe or just touch his clothes that he's wearing, maybe I can be healed. And it's a weird thing to think about because you're like, that's kind of like a little bit mystical or kind of weird that she just wanted to touch it, but it it shows strong faith that she was like, if I can just get to Jesus, maybe he can heal me. And so she went and went for it. And and I like that story because if you read it in one of the gospels, she reaches out and and grabs his clothes, uh his garment, and he instantly turns around and feels something happen.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And she's healed.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And you you expect Jesus' reaction to be I don't know what I expect his reaction to be, but the idea, but I read I read it in my one version and it says, but Jesus turned around. And I think that's important, you know, in your in our lives that yeah, Jesus turned around to save us, to make sure that we would he's gonna bring us with him. I always like that idea of it says, but he turned around and you know, did for that woman what she couldn't do for herself. Right. He does that for all of us. Yeah. And so that's a cool story.

SPEAKER_02:

The line that says that your he was telling her that your faith healed you. Like to me, that was very reminding that it's it's my faith that will get me through the storm, that will get me through you know, whatever I'm going through or dealing with. As long as I have faith. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no favorite Bible story, just Old Testament and general boot.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if I have a favorite. I really like You don't have to have a favorite. I really like all the stuff that we're learning right now with Moses.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I just I mean, that's a lot of stuff with him.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. We think Moses, we think of let my people go. And the plagues in Egypt and the party in the Red Sea. What?

SPEAKER_01:

You know the song. Yeah, the song. Na na na na.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know that song.

SPEAKER_01:

Youth Ministry. There we go.

SPEAKER_02:

Kids Ministry for the win.

SPEAKER_01:

Kids' ministry.

SPEAKER_00:

Moses songs. But you think Moses, you think Party in the Red Sea? You think Egypt and then maybe Ten Commandments, and then you think, well, that's about it.

SPEAKER_01:

But no, there's Oh my gosh, there's so much more. So much more. And I just think that I I don't know. There's been a couple things that we've read that I felt like were really relatable, like even back when God first called him, and he was like, Oh no, I'm not your guy. Like and then what he became, yeah. That's just mind-blowing how much how much he went through. And I can relate that he has a temper. I mean, don't we all? I hope.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And I think if we were in his shoes and he was leading this huge group of people through the middle of nowhere and they were complaining all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my god. I would have dropped him a while ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think anybody else would have. That's why God chose Moses for this.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. I was literally just thinking the other day though, like all the times that we've read over these different books of the Israelites, like, you know, forgetting the miracles that they just witnessed. And then I found myself praying about something that I have already I've already prayed about it. And I've already been like, okay, I'm gonna trust God with this. And then now I'm bringing it back up. And then I'm trusting him. And then I, oh, I'm trusting God with this, and then I'm bringing it back up, and I was like, oh wow, that conviction really just hit me. Like I'm thinking that they should know better. And I don't even that I would know better, and I'm not knowing better.

SPEAKER_00:

So Yeah, I think that's a big application for our life today. Because we're always like, oh, those Israelites are always crumbling and complaining and always doing stuff, and why don't they just do what they're supposed to do? Well, then you look at your own life and we're like, we know what we're supposed to be doing, but how often do we actually do the things that we say we want to or that we should be doing, and so we fall short in different places, and so it's easy to look back and be like, Well, those people, how dumb. But and like you just said, you find yourself right where they are. So I think one of my favorite Bible stories is David and Goliath still in the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you guys know that story?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. You know how I know it really well? Because your teenagers made a video out of it this summer.

unknown:

They did.

SPEAKER_00:

I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02:

They did.

SPEAKER_00:

They were we go to paintball camp every June. We take a group of about like 25 students to paintball camp every year. And this year we went down and they had to do like a project where they split off into teams and they got to make a video about a Bible story, but it had to be it was random, so they had to draw a Bible story, and then they got to pick they got to draw a uh genre type to do that Bible story in. And so we had some really interesting things. Uh one group got Jonah and the Whale as a Western. I like that one a lot. Noah's Ark as a musical. I like that one. But uh our group, one of our groups, they got David and Goliath, and their genre was Gen Z, which is for you guys that don't know what Gen Z is, it's just kind of like modern slang terms that teenagers use and just kind of different like social media stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of things are gone viral that we have no idea what they are.

SPEAKER_00:

But they knew what they were doing, and they ended up winning the whole competition with their David and Goliath story as a modern Gen Z telling. So yeah, that was pretty cool. They did a really good job with that. Nate Mitchell was the Goliath. But yeah, we had fun. I had fun with that. But David and Goliath is always a good story because a lot of people know it. I think even people that don't go to church or haven't never read the Bible before know the story of David and Goliath because it's become part of our culture, you know, a David versus Goliath story, like in sports, you know, the underdogs, all that good stuff. But I I like it when because it reminds me of it's a foreshadowing of what Jesus is gonna uh did for us. And so you read the story about David going out to face a giant and Goliath, and yeah, the whole Israelite army is scared, they're shaking on the sidelines, they're terrified, they've been out there for 40 days, and no one wants to go fight this giant, and no one trusts God, no one thinks that they're gonna win until David shows up and he's just a shepherd, and he goes out and he's like, I'm gonna fight the giant. I'm sick and tired of him, you know, making fun of God, making fun of the Israelites, and so David goes out and he fights Goliath, and he ends up killing him and defeating him, and the Philistine army ends up running away scared, and so they chase him out of there. But the whole thing is just a foreshadowing of Jesus. And when we put ourselves in the story of David and Goliath, usually we like to put ourselves where? Who would you like to see yourself as in this story?

SPEAKER_02:

David.

SPEAKER_00:

David. Yeah, that's what I always thought. I was like, yeah, if I'm gonna put myself the story, it'd be David, because I can fight the giants, I can kind of take them out and stand up for God. When really, this is showing us that we are the Israelite army on the sidelines. We're scared, shaking in our armor, powerless. We can't do anything against sin in our lives. We can't do it. There's nothing we can do to take it out. And David is actually a representation of Jesus in this story. He goes out and defeats, defeats Goliath and stands up for God. And so I see that in that story, and I always like that. It's just the way you can see these stories that you know for a long time and then you look at them a different way, and it just changes things, how you see things. And so uh that's one of my favorites. Uh I have other ones too, but David Goliath is a well-known one, but is also really powerful when you dig into it and see some of the connections to the rest of the Bible. So yeah. Uh today we're gonna talk a little bit about I think doubt and maybe a little fear and kind of how we can grow in our faith even through doubts. Have you guys ever had doubts in your faith before? I guess I would ask that.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. I think I'd like to say no.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd love to say absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

But why do you think doubts appear in our faith sometimes? What's the root cause of these doubts that sometimes come into our thoughts or actions?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think before we've done like the studies that we've been a part of, which is just actually reading my Bible. I always thought naively before that like there were these outside forces that were always telling me, oh, I did something bad, like I sinned or I have doubt or something, and there's somebody whispering in my ear that's because I would never do that. And although I'm not against anything like that, I'm pretty sure that almost all the time it's just me and it's my body, it's my flesh, it's my mind that's the actual problem that's causing doubt and fear, and just I mean, it's I think it's human nature. I think it's just because we're fallen people.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think I had a lot of doubt in my life because I didn't study the Bible at like I should have. You know, and it's been like the past couple years that I've really understood and been able to dig in and understand the scripture better. So before I think it was just because I didn't really understand what it was saying. You know, I just was just reading Bible stories and believed that they were true, but I think because I wasn't comprehending well enough, I wasn't putting two and two together, I was thinking, Yeah, I had a lot of doubt with my salvation. Am I really saved? You know, because we do have sin. And sometimes, I mean, you don't live in habitual sin, but even just the smallest white lie, you know, it's still sin. Or envy or judging somebody or you know, just just the little even the little things. I felt like, well, there's no way I'm going to heaven.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, yeah. And even when you get your sometimes you get the outside under control. You know, you're like, oh, I'm not doing this physical sin of whatever it is, but my mind. Oh my goodness. Right. Now I notice what's going on in there more. And I'm like, stop it. Those are my thoughts. Those are my thoughts? Is that me? Somebody else has to be controlling that.

SPEAKER_00:

Be like, did I just think that? Or is those really something that's going on inside my head? And so when you stop and take a look at yourself, you're like, I got it good here, but then you're like, wait a minute. These thoughts are still, you know, and that's when I think this idea of doubt can kind of creep in and be like, Am I really doing it right over here? Or am I, if I'm still having these thoughts, does that mean I'm still not doing something correctly over here in this area or something like that? So my my question is kind of like, yeah, okay, so we have doubts. Are having doubts and having questions about our faith, are they is that bad? Is that a negative thing?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think so. I think it helps us to grow more. I think it gives us a desire to want to do better and be better and trust more.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm starting to think that it's never I mean, I think it'll get better like the more education I have, but it's like even somebody who's a scholar in scripture and has been a Christian their whole life, like, do they ever like I always think, do they ever have this voice that you know, or thought that comes in their head that's like, what if you're totally wrong? You know, what if this is everything you learned is just not there? You mean you just have that thought and then you have to snap out of it. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing, brain? Brain?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah, I think so. The answer to the question is is doubt in questions negative or is it bad? Well, I think it depends. They don't have to be negative, they don't have to be bad things, but it's how you deal with them. Right. Well it ends ends up kind of directing which way that's gonna go. So I think it's it like I said, it's all about how you deal with doubt and how you deal with questions. And and so when you do have them, because we've all agreed that we've had doubts, we've had questions before, it's it's the right response to those. And I think, you know, like Ashley was saying, the response should be it should push you closer to God, it should push you closer to wanting to know him better and and really getting into scripture, getting into your Bible, praying a little bit more. And so I think that's where doubt and questions can be a positive thing in the Christian walk. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I've been having a lot of conversations. It turns out when you openly are like, hey, I want to do this, and people will come up and be like, answer my questions. And then I have to go, I am so sorry, I don't know the answers to your questions.

SPEAKER_00:

That's good. I mean, when like if you don't know the answer, you have to be like, I don't know the answer to that question. It's better than just making up whatever you think on the spot. Brittany tells making stuff up. Let's make some books.

SPEAKER_02:

This is what Britney says.

SPEAKER_00:

This is what I say. No, but that's the right response, is be like, I don't know the answer to that question, and let's kind of do it together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think that a lot of the conversations I've been having lately about doubt always lead to fear. Like I feel like those go really close close together. I was talking to somebody the other day and they were talking about how scary it is. Like if you decided right now that you wanted to turn your life over, how scary it would be to look at everything you would have to change.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And how scary that could just that part could look, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because when you ask somebody to follow Jesus, the the initial thing is like, well, I'm gonna have to give up all this stuff. I'm gonna have to live differently. I'm gonna have to it's it's something new, you know. It's you know, the not knowing, the unknown, I guess, of what's coming is kind of scary. And and that's where we have to make sure that we uh show what being a Christian is really about, I think. Because it's not about I have to get rid of all these things and I have to do this. It's well now I get to move on from this stuff to something better. Because Jesus is calling us to something better, not perfect, not always fun or easy, but better. And so I think that like when you have people asking questions and they're like, well, it's kind of scary and is it the fear of the unknown, it will be, but I think they're scared because they think they're gonna be losing stuff in their life, and and they're not looking at what they're gaining in Christ.

SPEAKER_01:

So um Yeah, I think they definitely go hand in hand, and even there's stuff that's not in Scripture, you know, there's stuff that's still there's not it's not a guide for every single thing that's happening in our lives.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. I I'd say like the Bible has tons of answers, yes, but not all the answers. Right. And there's some things that the Bible just is silent on. I do think it's the best place to go for a lot of things. And like it doesn't speak to every single topic ever. You know, it was written 2,000 years ago, and sometimes, you know, the the context and all that stuff, and so yeah, the Bible has all this wisdom in it, it has all these answers in it, but there's still some things where, you know, we're not really sure exactly 100% on different things. And and so, yeah, is that what you're kind of talking about, I guess?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but just sometimes that can be a little that can lead to doubt, that can lead to being scared because you're you might be new, you might be looking for an answer, or might be looking for guidance, and you're not really sure how to And somebody said you should try this Jesus thing out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that still doesn't answer this. Yeah, it still doesn't answer my question. You know, I think that's just growing as a Christian. It's a it's a journey, it's a process, and so it's not all gonna happen at once. And that's why we have Bible scholars who still have to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

And we've had tons of conversations too. I think all three of us have had tons of conversations where it's like, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

In the end, that might not matter when you know a certain topic or I find a lot of the questions that people I mean, they're just like these random off the wall, like what if, or and I'm like, it doesn't like I saw a TikTok and they said this, or I was like scrolling on my phone and I heard this about the Bible, and that's really or like random facts.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you know? And I'm like, oh, cool, that could be true. Right. Did you know that Jesus is coming back then?

SPEAKER_02:

Now wait, what? No. Yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00:

People have been saying that for a long time.

SPEAKER_01:

But like those things. Saying I doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, you have questions and you have doubts, and sometimes you get answers to them. Sometimes you get answers to the questions, yeah, but sometimes you don't get a solid answer on certain topics or certain questions, and that's okay. The Bible is really clear where it needs to be, and that's the gospel about Jesus and his life, his death and resurrection, and how he is the one that brings us back to God. And so all that stuff, the most important stuff, is right there. And so you can have other conversations, you can have other people's questions, you can go down rabbit holes, and you could, you know, and we've had conversations where we're like, this is fun to talk about, but it doesn't really affect salvation, doesn't really affect, but you know, I'm not saying that your questions aren't important or that the topics you want to talk about aren't important, and you can discuss them and you can talk about them, but don't let it become a distraction where he pulls you away from the stuff that really matters, because you know it's easy to do when it comes to the Bible. You can go down all these different trails and and and then you get so obsessed with these little things that you lose sight of the real reason that we're supposed to be doing things as a church. It's to tell people about Jesus and his love and the good news about how he makes life better. So I think the the fear and the doubt and the questions are all real things and stuff, and there's just we have to handle it correctly, we have to do it the right way. So and there's examples in the Bible about people that doubt. So you know, for a long time, I know some people grow up in places and churches where you don't ask questions. You don't you're not allowed to ask questions, or it's frowned upon to ask certain things or to have doubts at all. And so I don't think that's the right approach either. I think we're supposed to wrestle with our doubts and wrestle with our questions, and it it's supposed to push us towards God more, not pull us away. And so, yeah, I think that the Bible says clearly in different places that you know, even people that knew Jesus had doubts and had questions, and so it's a it's a journey and it's a process. And so, do you know any stories in the Bible that talk about people doubting?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I remember doubting Thomas. Yeah, see, doubting Thomas.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a it's right there in his name. His name was actually doubting Thomas. No, I'm just kidding. Actually doubting Thomas, but they we call him doubting Thomas because he he doubted. And we have that we throw that tag on to him, like, oh, doubting Thomas, how dare he doubt like that? But you go back and look at it, and it was when Jesus was crucified and came out of the tomb alive and back, and he appeared to the disciples in the upper room, except Thomas wasn't there. Uh he was who knows where he was, out getting food or supplies for the guys, and he was running errands, and then he comes back and they're like, Thomas, Jesus was here.

SPEAKER_01:

You're never gonna guess who was just here.

SPEAKER_00:

Who was back, and Thomas probably looking at these guys like, really?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Like when you hear it and you put yourself in Thomas's shoes, you're like, Oh, I would definitely doubting Thomas. We all saw the same thing, right? Like, what it what is it? Let me see the mark. He wanted to see the mark.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll believe it then. But you guys are nuts. You're crazy. And like that's and so we we put a negative label on Thomas. We're like, oh, doubting Thomas. Don't be like them. But we would have I mean, I would have been like that. I know if you go back and put yourself in that story, been like, Yeah, these guys are crazy. People don't come back from the dead.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

The part that I love about that, if I'm getting it right, is Jesus, the way he treats Thomas, like he's like, here, just so you know. So that's why here's the marks. Like you can see it. I'm not gonna be mad at you or pull that against you, right?

SPEAKER_00:

And that happens a week later. It doesn't happen right there in the moment. And so Thomas doubts, and he's like, I'm not believing you guys. I'm not believing Jesus is risen from the grave and back alive. That doesn't happen. And he had two options. He could have left those crazy people behind, be like, I can't hang out with you guys anymore because you're insane. Or he could still hang out with them and stick around and see for himself. And says seven or eight days later, I think Jesus reappeared and Thomas was there. And Jesus doesn't go to Thomas and be like, How dare you not believe? He goes and says, Here's your here you go. Put your hands here and touch the touch the holes in my hands and feel the scars on my on my body. And so, yeah, we're allowed to have doubts. We're allowed to feel certain ways sometimes when things are hard. And Jesus will be like, here when you're ready, you know, come and see for yourself. I love that story about Thomas because he didn't abandon his people. He stuck around and stuck through it until Jesus showed up. And he could have left. He could have been like, No, I'm not gonna do that. And so that's what I'm afraid of when people have doubts and questions. Don't move farther away from God. Actually lean in closer and just be patient and maybe wait a little bit longer and see what happens. Um like Thomas did in this story. Yeah, I like that one a lot. That's why when I think of doubting in the Bible, I think of that. Anybody else?

SPEAKER_01:

I have a better one than that.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe you don't.

SPEAKER_02:

How about when Peter walked on the water?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's in my notes right here. Look at that. Ding ding ding.

SPEAKER_02:

That's one of my other favorite.

SPEAKER_00:

That's one of my favorite New Testament stories, is when they find they're on the boat and they're like, what is out there on the water? What's happening? And they think they're seeing things or whatever, and then it's Jesus, and he's walking on the water. And the disciples see him, and Peter's like, That's cool. He's like, Yeah, Lord, tell me to come out there on the water with you. I want to be where you are. I want to be out there with you. And Jesus is like, Come on, Peter, come out here and join me. And so Peter jumps out of the boat, and Peter actually gets to walk on the water too. And he's walking out towards Jesus, and then what happens next?

SPEAKER_02:

And he starts to sink.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. The Bible describes it as a storm happening. It's crazy. You're out in the middle of this lake in the middle of the water, and there's lightning, and rain hitting you in the face, and the waves are hitting you and knocking you over. And Peter looks to the side, and he looks over here, and he looks over there, and he sees the storm, he sees the waves, he sees the rain, the lightning, and then starts to sink, starts to drown right there in the water. And what does Jesus do?

SPEAKER_01:

Reaches out.

SPEAKER_00:

And he reaches out, grabs him, and pulls him up, pulls him up on top of the water, back to where he was, and says, Peter, you have little faith. Why did you doubt? And he took his eyes off Christ. We all know the story of, you know, stay focused on Jesus, then it'll be better. And so when doubt, when doubt hits, when questions come about faith and about things we don't understand sometimes, the best thing to do is focus on the important thing. Like we talked about, the Bible's super clear on who Jesus was and what he did and why he did it. And so to remain focused on him is how you get through these doubts, how you get through these moments of fear, I guess, of the unknown, stepping into something new, or just the everyday of this journey that we're on in life, trusting Jesus and wanting to be with him. And because life is that's the storms. I mean, there's gonna be waves, there's gonna be things trying to knock you down, and if you take your eyes off Christ, then those doubts will start to eat away and you'll start to sink. But Jesus is always right there waiting, and he'll grab hold and pull you up if we deal with doubt correctly, if we deal with these questions in the right way. So those are the two main ones that I always think about.

SPEAKER_01:

With that story, I think about the other disciples in the boat. Like, what was their doubt when Peter decided he was gonna jump out of the boat? Like, you know, they're all scared.

SPEAKER_00:

He wants to go, what?

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, they're all like, what is that? Yeah, you know, and Peter's the only one who's strong enough in that moment to go, I want to do that. But the rest of them are probably like, no, what are you doing? Yeah, do not jump out of this boat.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's the first step is to get out of the boat. And that's like trusting Jesus to be like, I trust that he's gonna take care of me. And we all make that initial decision when you want to follow Jesus, you're like, I'm gonna get out of the boat, I'm gonna walk with Jesus, I'm gonna walk where he's at. And then life happens, struggles happen, doubts happen, fears happen, and it comes at you really hard and really fast sometimes. And yeah, we we stumble, we, we, we fall, we don't always do the right thing and we sink, but Jesus is always still there, and he's always watching, and and you know, if we need him, he's right there to pull you back up and remind us. Focus on me, look at me, forget about all the other stuff, even though all that's happening. You still have me. I'm right there the whole time. So that's pretty cool. I like all these stories that we read about, and we're like, oh, those silly disciples, what are they thinking? What are they doing?

SPEAKER_02:

But they apply to our lives so much. That's weird. It's it's weird. God invented it. It is. I mean, even this past weekend, like I felt like I had been in the boat for so long with something particular my life was going through. And I got out of the boat, was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And as soon as I started to do it, I was like, Wait, I don't know about that. But I never thought about it referring to that Bible story, but that's exactly the steps that I went through. And then Jesus pulled me back up and said, Nope, this is what you're doing. This is and I'm like, Oh yeah, here I am.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, yeah, yeah. And that is that's repeated in the Bible over and over and over again. You know, it's a journey, it's a process. No one decides to follow Jesus and then everything's perfect. You never, you know, always we're we're called to to something higher, to something better, and we should strive to be like him and to want the same things that he wants. And yeah, we stumble sometimes and we fall. He's gonna pull you back up every time. There's not one, there's not like, you know, he's not like this is the 80th time I've had to pull you back up, you know. And he will, and he'll do it the 81st time, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

You get as many times, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and he he's you know, we should strive to be like, well, I don't I don't need to be pulled up as much or as often as you continue to grow in Christ, but you know, you're not loved any less by Jesus because of your doubts or your questions or your lack of faith sometimes. In fact, you know, Jesus has this moment where somebody comes to him in Mark chapter 9, and this dad is, you know, desperate for somebody to come heal his child. And it says in Matthew 9, 24, immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. And so you're in this moment of, I believe. I know who Jesus is, but help my unbelief, because I'm struggling right now. And that's a part of life where you something where uh everybody's gonna have to experience that at one point where life's really hard. You go through something, a tragedy, or something bad's happening, and you believe in God, you know he's there, but it doesn't feel like it, and help my unbelief. So I I like that in Jesus after that, he's like, I'm here, and your your child's healed. And even though this person was like, I believe, help my unbelief, there's still some of that doubt, there's still some of that questioning, and that's in hard times. And so I really like that Jesus deals with people that have doubt, deals with people that have questions sometimes, and he doesn't like rebuke them. He's not upset, he's not angry that they've doubted or have these questions. He's like, let's work, let's let's deal with it. And so I think that's what we have to do when it comes to this idea of doubt, fearing the unknown, having questions. So if you have questions or you have doubts, don't you have to be afraid of them. Rush Church is a good place to work through those things. Ask what you want to know, ask different things, work on your doubts. So the worst thing you can do is ignore them or feel like you can't ask them, and feeling like, well, I shouldn't really doubt Jesus. He'll be mad at me or he'll be like angry, or God'll that God doesn't want us to doubt. I think I think God does. I think God wants us to ask these questions about who he is, and when we have doubts, he wants us to draw us closer to him through doubt. So I think doubt and questions are good things if handled properly and not pushed away or ignored, or felt like you can't talk about things.

SPEAKER_01:

So Yeah, they're brought to God, not hidden.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, not hidden or so just be honest with them, just tell them what you're feeling.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, that's the best obviously going and asking people at church has been wonderful and we have great teachers. But in my prayer, I try to be really honest. Like even though he knows what I'm thinking and all my flaws. Just try to tell him like I don't think I'm supposed to be feeling this. I don't think I'm supposed to be thinking this way.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good step. Realizing that, you know, when you can realize that when you can look at your self, even you self-reflect and be like, this is probably not where it should be, or I need to work on this. That's a good thing, that's a good place to be. You know, you don't want to go through life and think that you're doing everything completely right, but you're not.

SPEAKER_01:

So I wonder if I'll ever get out of self-reflection mode. Does that happen? No, you should do we ever get out of that? Because now I feel like I'm constantly in self-reflection.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we should self-reflect. I think if we don't, then I think it leads to bad places, I guess. Or back into sin or back into places you don't want to be. Right. So you have to keep checking yourself.

SPEAKER_02:

Or pride. You can get stuck in a prideful manner.

SPEAKER_00:

You think that you have made it or you've arrived and you've you know, I am holy now, and now all you people are below me. But you could get to that kind of place too if you don't check yourself. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely uh always checking.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Proverbs three, I think, says, lean on, lean on, lean not on your own understanding, but lean on God. And so sometimes we want to know things, we're just not meant to know. Like we're not made to fully understand how God does things. We're the creation, he's the creator. And I so when I do have questions or I do doubt here and there about things, or I'm like, well, is this really how this is, or what about this? I'm like, I can I'm allowed to think about it, but I shouldn't obsess with it, I shouldn't keep going until I I demand an answer, or you know, I'm not gonna follow God anymore. Some people can get to that place, but we should lean on Him, not our own understanding about things. And also, Isaiah 55 is one of my go-to verses when it comes to doubt and questions. Isaiah's talking and he's like, you know, God, your thoughts are higher than my thoughts, your ways are so far above my ways. And so that just reminds me that yeah, I might have a question. I might not understand something fully, but I don't have to. I have to just let that go sometimes, you know, and know that God is so big and he's so far above us and how he thinks and how he does things. And that's that's brings me peace. I guess that's what I would say when I think about that verse. So any other questions or comments about doubt from our conversation today? You guys got any big plans this weekend?

SPEAKER_01:

I go to a wedding this weekend.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah? Yeah. Are you excited about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think so. Weddings are always fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I haven't been to a bad one yet. I'll never be to a bad wedding.

SPEAKER_00:

My kids have soccer tournaments Saturday. It's the final day. So if they win their first game, they play in the championship game. Yeah. Yeah. Eden plays the first at nine, Timmy plays at ten. If they both win those games, they both play in the championship at twelve at the same time. But it's at the same place, and the fields are right beside each other. So that's good. We'll see how that goes. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

My oldest is coming back from college for fall break this weekend. Yeah, a baby shower for the first baby of the family, I guess you could say. Yeah. Like the first niece is having a baby. So we're excited.

SPEAKER_01:

That's always fun.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Not as exciting as last weekend. I was gonna say this weekend was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, last weekend I made um I made my kids run through the woods. Just they wanted to go to a haunted house.

SPEAKER_00:

They wanted to go to a haunted house, but you're like I was like, no, let's not.

SPEAKER_01:

How about you just go outside in the woods? They're like, I'm not going out there. That's terrifying. Um, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_00:

Was it dark when they went out there?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, they went out in the dark.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What they didn't know is that we were sending their dads out after them.

SPEAKER_02:

So wait, so they were in the woods first and the dads came back.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the dads had snuck out in the woods. Okay. And so they didn't realize that the dads were already out there.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

So it was it was pretty. Did you hear screaming like miles away from you? Well, I kind of got I had to go because the twins, my twin nieces went, they're three. They made it. But they wanted to go um through. So we carried them through, which carrying a three-year-old through the woods is good exercise, right? But yeah, they did good. They're like, is that my dad? Yeah, that's your dad.

SPEAKER_02:

Dad, what are you doing out here? It's dark. Yeah, that's funny. While you were scaring kids, I was at a concert. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I went to the Phil Wickham concert with Josh Baldwin and William Hastings. Yeah. So that was really cool. About another, it's probably about 3,000 other people there worshiping. Oh, and well, this I had never been to a concert like this before because this one, they like you started with all of them. They were all on the stage together. So Phil Wick, I mean, like, you know, Phil Wick's a headliner. Yeah. And I was like, well, he's not gonna be till the end. No, they literally all came out together, sang a song together, then they would like leave, and somebody would do a couple of their songs, and some then they'd come back and do something all together again. So the whole night was pretty much just like nothing but worship for two and a half hours.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's a long time. But I loved it. I love worship. Very nice.

SPEAKER_01:

That sounds like a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you go to a lot of concerts?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I'm old.

SPEAKER_00:

I've been to a lot of concerts. I've seen Skillet so many times.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I do love that.

SPEAKER_00:

I've seen David Crowder so many times. Like I've been to like youth conferences and then youth ministry conferences, and I've just been I've been to festivals, and so I've seen a lot of concerts.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, if I have a chance to see Forrest Frank, I want front row seats.

SPEAKER_00:

Front row to Forest? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. That'd be my dream.

SPEAKER_00:

He should do that front row forest. That's just front row forest tour or something like that. Forest, if you're listening, it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02:

Forest Frank. My name's Ashley Phillips. I would love front row tickets to see you.

SPEAKER_01:

What's so funny?

SPEAKER_02:

41-year-old children's pastor.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm laughing. But like when my kids listen to this, they're gonna go, Mom, why didn't you say that we want that too?

SPEAKER_00:

She's gonna end up getting tickets for somehow because this gets out. My kids are gonna mut me against me.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, mom, why didn't you?

SPEAKER_00:

My kids like Forrest a lot. If you haven't heard of Forrest Frank and his music, you should probably check it out. It's pretty upbeat and it's got some got some good ones. So yeah. That's a long concert though, two and a half hours.

SPEAKER_02:

It is well, but it wasn't a concert, it was like a worship. It was like a worship night. It was the air one worship tour. I know, I didn't either. But yeah, it was just I can't like I can't wait for heaven. Like I because I just know I want to be right there where Carrie Job is worshiping, you know. That's worshiping Jesus and not being her. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No one here thought that.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, her being the blessing. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's a long, that's a long worship session, a concert. I went to the longest concert I saw Metallica and they played for three hours. That was fun. Yeah. We weren't worshiping, but it was still still my youth ministry professor. Like his dream, he's like, uh, what I really want to see happen is I want to see Metallica get saved, and I want to see him go on tour with David Crowder. And I'd be like, that would be that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

That would be ethic.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah. So well, I think we're gonna call it an episode and get out of here. Thanks to Ben Moore for helping us get all the tech problems figured out today. We wouldn't have made this episode if it wasn't for Ben. So special thanks to that guy here at Calvary.

SPEAKER_02:

We have really noticed a lot of good things from Ben lately. We really appreciate him. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, he does a lot. He's on the worship team at church and helps out. He's an elder. Anyway, enough about Ben. We'll talk about him another day. But this has been Rush Hour.