Rush Hour
RushHour helps RushChurch members stay connected to each other, informs them about current RushChurch happenings, and also includes bible study/theology talk. We will speak about RushChurch specifics but also on current events, tough questions on faith, church and the Bible
Rush Hour
What's the deal with.....Giants And The Bible?
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We catch up on Easter weekend wins and fails, spring schedules, and a few church updates before diving into one of the strangest Bible questions: where do giants and the Nephilim come from. We trace Genesis 6 through Job, Numbers, Peter, and Jude, then talk through a theory about demons as “unclean spirits” and what any of this means for real life faith.
• Easter traditions, sunrise service, and kid chaos
• Small groups starting, including scrapbooking
• Summer student camp reminders and price increase date
• Joke time, then an icebreaker about deleting foods
• Pizza hate, spaghetti shade, and a newlywed strainer disaster
• Why “giants in the Bible” points to Genesis 6
• Three main views of “sons of God”
• Bene Elohim and why it reads like spiritual beings
• Nephilim meaning, “fallen ones,” and the giants connection
• Israel’s fear in Numbers 13 and the “afterward” question
• Peter and Jude on angels who sinned and were chained
• A theory on demons as disembodied Nephilim spirits
• Why demons recognize Jesus and what that proves
• Spiritual battle language in Paul and a defensive posture
• A preview of future topics like denominations and church community
Be sure you get more information at the welcome desk
So you can sign up for that at Halsmill.org
www.rushchurch.com
Welcome And Easter Stories
SPEAKER_05Welcome everybody to another episode of Rush Hour Podcast. I'm here and we're all back in the same place. Ashley's back from her trip. Brittany's didn't go anywhere, so you're still here.
SPEAKER_03Still here.
SPEAKER_05Still here. Yep. So we're back. I don't know what even know what episode number this is, but we've been doing this for a while. It's like 20 something. So we did Easter this past weekend. Easter went pretty good. Did you guys have a good Easter weekend?
SPEAKER_01Yes, it was wonderful.
SPEAKER_02Mine was quiet, which was nice because coming back from the trip, I just needed a day to reset.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We we didn't do big Easter egg hunt. I don't know if you guys did. No, I didn't this year. We normally do like a giant one at my mom's, but my mom had found all these random gifts that my grandma had bought before she passed. And they are very random. Like a women's t-shirt or a pack of men's underwear or a steamer. More or less not gifts, but just did you have like family bingo or something? They set out all the packages, and the kids like drew an egg that had a certain number, and that was the prize that they had. So it was really funny. But I don't know what you call that.
SPEAKER_05That's not an egg hun. It's just more like a prize egg giveaway.
SPEAKER_01What'd your kids get? Axel got a steamer. Mom got him gifts and stuff like that too.
SPEAKER_05But they get you know, some good things of that kind of like jelly beans and some candy and stuff.
SPEAKER_01Believe I got the random pack of men's underwear. Nice.
SPEAKER_05Maybe he needed them. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you can never have too many pairs of underwear.
SPEAKER_05Okay, let's move on to the next topic here. So Easter was good. We got well, we had an Easter egg hunt. It was cold. And so I had to go out and watch kids look for eggs in the cold. But they liked it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05And there were two golden eggs, and Timmy got one, had $10 in it.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, golden egg.
SPEAKER_02What kind of candy do you guys put in the eggs?
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_05There was good. Timmy got some good candy. Eden got a little bit. She was kind of grumpy. Wandering around with the bag, just walking past eggs. She was not in the mood. But oh, it's cold. Reese's eggs, you know, Wampers. Whoppers.
SPEAKER_02I like that new name. I call them Wampers.
SPEAKER_05I always call them Wampers because I think it's better than Whoppers. So they should rename them. I'm gonna write them a letter.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wampers is much better.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, Easter was good. I was really tired. We did OTFC Friday and Saturday. We got back and then we had all day Easter full of stuff and things. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you did sunrise.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that sunrise went really well. I was happy with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was really good.
SPEAKER_05I like doing those, like I said, candlelight service at Christmas Eve and sunrise service. It's pretty special. Just to kind of reset and really focus in on the important stuff. So I was pretty excited to be able to do sunrise service. But so yeah, I don't know any big announcements we have. We have small groups are starting off. There's uh all kinds of different small groups you can join.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a scrapbooking one.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna mention the scrapbooking
Spring Announcements And Summer Plans
SPEAKER_05one. I saw that you could sign up for the scrapbooking one. I'm not a big scrapbooker. I like to look at them when they're done. I do like to I do enjoy when people make scrapbooks. My mom used to do she used to have the scrapbook parties and put the all the things in. So I have a few that she has of us from little until college. So they're fun to look at. Go back and like, wow, look at that. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that sounds fun.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, for the scrapbooking small group, all these small groups that we have starting or have already started have their own specific purposes and all different, you know, design for different types of people. So excited to see what comes out of these small groups moving forward. But the scrapbooking one I saw that was that was starting soon. So if you're interested in that kind of thing, be sure you get more information at the welcome desk. I know other little small groups have started and stuff, so be on the lookout for that. Student-wise, paintball camp and girls camp at Hal's Mill this summer. The price goes up in a couple weeks. So April 22nd, the price does increase. Not a whole lot, but just it goes up a little bit. So you can sign up for that at Halsmill.org. I think that's about it. As far as I know. You guys have anything to add?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_05Rush 1 8 Ministry will be starting to do some stuff. We're getting into that time of year, spring and summer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you'll see all the different dates in the bulletin this week of all the different events we have lined up.
SPEAKER_05Sweet. All right. Nope. It's a quiet month. April, I got through Easter, and now April's kind of just like, let's breathe for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02This is like the calm before the storm. Summer's on its way. Kids' jam is getting ready.
SPEAKER_05Let's glow. Kids jam 2026.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05I'm excited for the black lights and glow sticks and bright neon stuff. Yes. Alright. Well, at this part of our podcast, and I think it's Ashley's joke time. Oh. Yes, you. Well, maybe if she has one. I do. Yes, I do. Is it joke time, right?
SPEAKER_02I was thinking we
Bible Jokes And An Icebreaker
SPEAKER_02did the icebreakers first, but I'll start off with a laugh.
SPEAKER_05We need the laugh first. Here we go.
SPEAKER_02All right. I got two small ones. Okay, here we go. Number one. What did Jonah's family say when he told them about what happened before reaching Nineveh?
SPEAKER_05No idea.
SPEAKER_02That sounds fishy. Wait, hit the button.
SPEAKER_05That was that was the worst one you've given us so far.
SPEAKER_02Okay, here's my second one. What was Moses' wife, the Porah, known as when she'd throw dinner parties?
SPEAKER_05No, good grief. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02The hostess with the Moses.
SPEAKER_04That one was uh that was better than the Jonah one, but still pretty much my kids are gonna like the Jonah one. I didn't like the Jonah one.
SPEAKER_05I like that one. Yeah. Hostess with the Moses because she's got Moses. That's pretty funny. Thank you for sharing that. Did you have an icebreaker question? What were you gonna ask? Didn't you have one? I don't know, maybe not.
SPEAKER_01Let me see. Hmm. What food? Let's do that one. What food do you want to have eliminated or destroyed?
SPEAKER_05Like forever?
SPEAKER_01Forever, evidently.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01If you could take it off the map.
SPEAKER_05Ashley.
The Food We Would Erase Forever
SPEAKER_05Tell us, Ashley, what food would you want taken off the map?
SPEAKER_01So America can riot.
unknownFood.
SPEAKER_02Y'all can hate me all you want, but I cannot stand pizza.
SPEAKER_05She's getting rid of pizza, everybody. Pizza is now gone from the world. No more pizza. Like, why? Why don't you like pizza?
SPEAKER_02It's greasy, it's oily. It's you're are you for it or against it when you talk like that? I don't know. That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_04So far, sounds good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sounds delicious. No, it always just makes my stomach unsettled. I actually I remember I can do without cheese.
SPEAKER_05Do you like all the toppings on the pizza?
SPEAKER_02I like mushroom. So here's the thing. I used to just pick off the pepperoni the mushrooms and just eat that. Like I didn't really, you know. And yeah, of course, you'd pull off the cheese too, but it's fine.
SPEAKER_05You can try to defend yourself all you want. There's no there's no it's my favorite food. Wait, your favorite food is pizza? Yeah. That's terrible favorite.
SPEAKER_02And I'm gonna get rid of it. It's my favorite food. Next to tacos.
SPEAKER_05I'm in the middle on pizza. Like it's like a six out of ten.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Maybe because I'm a youth pastor and I've had pizza my whole life.
SPEAKER_01A lot. Well, I've never had anybody be like, Do you want a piece of pizza? I'm like, no.
SPEAKER_05That's true though. If anybody offers me free, I'm like, yeah, I'll take a piece of pizza. I'll take a pale pizza.
SPEAKER_02That's just it. Like I have eaten pizza. I will eat pizza because sometimes that's what just people around me are eating.
SPEAKER_04So you do eat pizza.
SPEAKER_02I've eaten it. Yes. Okay. And I will eat it, but I don't like it.
SPEAKER_04But I'm gonna eat this.
SPEAKER_05I don't like it though.
SPEAKER_02You gotta have some type of protein or something to put in your stomach. Like it's a meat lover's pizza.
SPEAKER_05Protein all over it.
SPEAKER_02It still has grease, though.
SPEAKER_05It's just yes, meat is pretty greasy.
SPEAKER_02Usually I would take a salad or the wings over, you know, no wings. Because all pizza places have that.
SPEAKER_05Wings are good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they are good.
SPEAKER_05And then top right there. Oh the best food is cheeseburger.
SPEAKER_02You can come at me all you want. I won't come after you.
SPEAKER_05If you had to get rid of the food, I'll come back. I will come after you. What are you getting rid of?
SPEAKER_02Well, wait, hold on.
SPEAKER_05Oh, she doesn't even know.
SPEAKER_02Well Cody, what are you getting rid of when she thinks?
SPEAKER_05I'm not really a picky. I like a lot of things. Why would I want to get rid of a food though? I don't really know. Like if I like not eat anything. I don't like hummus. That's a usually it's usually highly debated when I say hummus is gross. People are like, what?
SPEAKER_02I love it. So just get rid of it that way, they don't have to ask you anymore.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I won't have to, and yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_01I think like a normal person I could do without spaghetti. It's kind of overrated.
SPEAKER_05So you guys are really bashing the Italians today, you know? Just get rid of spaghetti. Get rid of pizza.
SPEAKER_01You love spaghetti.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, yes. I love the yeah.
SPEAKER_02Carter asked for it like almost once a week. Oh, I cook it all the time, but I'm just like, I could not. It was the only meal I knew how to make when I first got married was spaghetti. Oh, I'll tell this story really quick. Okay. So our first apartment just married. I was like, we're gonna, I'm gonna cook you dinner because I know what I'm doing. We didn't have a strainer. Okay. So, you know, we had just gotten married, didn't get everything we needed. We were poor. Like, it's just it is what it is. So I'm like, well, we'll just carefully pull the, pour the water out of the pot. Nope. I dumped all of it into the kitchen sink, which had a disposal. So then I'm crying because it's our first night at home as a married couple, and I ruined dinner and I go turn on the the disposal and spaghetti stand straight up and is flinging all around the kitchen, and I'm crying and Darren's laughing. And he's like, We we lived right across the street from him. He's like, I'll walk to Walmart real quick and go get a strainer, and I'll be right back. Oh, it was just but it's one of those things you'll never forget.
SPEAKER_01I'm still like the whole box of spaghetti you were trying to put down the garbage puzzle, not on purpose.
SPEAKER_05Like I was just this is a great idea. Get in there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was the other thing. I didn't really know how to use appliances back then either. So I just thought it all can go down there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what it's for. But yeah, that sounds good. I love spaghetti.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we do now have a strainer. You're a really good cook now, so that story turned out well.
SPEAKER_05You're the chili champion, so she's good. Chili's good. We know that at least. So all right. So it's springtime. Everybody enjoying spring? Everybody ready for summer? Yes. What's your favorite season? Fall, summer, spring?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Nobody says winter.
SPEAKER_01I don't think anybody really I
Spring Sports And A Marriage Pasta Fail
SPEAKER_01do like parts of winter. Yeah, I like the slowdown.
SPEAKER_02I used to love that like end of summer, fall transition, but now I'm really starting to like spring. Just that that new growth, that new color, the warm weather a little bit, you know, very pleasant.
SPEAKER_01I think it's because we so we're so happy. That's true.
SPEAKER_05Because in Ohio we're all Ashley's microphone is falling off her desk.
SPEAKER_01We all have a lack of sunlight and we're all sad, and then the sun comes out.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I think I like spring. I like spring, plus baseball starting.
SPEAKER_05That's what I was gonna say. It's baseball season. Eden's playing softball, Timmy's got baseball stuff, and so I'm helping to coach and stuff. It's always fun. Ashley's having technical difficulties with her microphone coach.
SPEAKER_04You're just gonna have to hold it.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Well, that's not ideal, but you can do that. What happened to me that one time?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05We should probably retighten these.
SPEAKER_02It happened out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, do you like baseball?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love baseball. Okay, great. Yes, so I need every I need all your kids' schedules because I love to watch them. I'm not a crazy baseball mom anymore. I don't have kids who play anymore, so I'll be a crazy fan.
SPEAKER_01Well, Axel's playing baseball, and I'm helping with Roslyn. I am not head coaching, which is nice.
SPEAKER_05Erica's coaching Eden's theme, and I'm helping with Timmy's team. But I love baseball time, season we're out get warm, get outside and stuff. Did you guys play any sports growing up?
SPEAKER_02I was a cheerleader.
SPEAKER_05Okay. No, just kidding. Cheerleading's a sport. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Playing sports was probably an understatement to my childhood.
SPEAKER_05Did you like invent sports or what? I don't know. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01A lot of sports year-round. There was never a time for what were what was your main top?
SPEAKER_05What did you play?
SPEAKER_01Well, in high school, I played volleyball, basketball, and softball.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So you were into the sports?
SPEAKER_01I was into the sports.
SPEAKER_05Do you think I was into the sports?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_01You were?
SPEAKER_05I'm not an athlete. Disc golf. That didn't come along until I was almost 30. But I played sports growing up, baseball and basketball, until you had to start trying out for teams, and then I didn't make them, so I stopped playing. Um so like Timmy, Timmy's like, you know all about sports. And he's like, Yeah, well, how would you ever hit a home run? And I was like, I was terrible at sports, Timmy. He's like, What? Yes, you're much better than me than I ever was already. And he was like, Wow. But uh also he I remember when he first started to realize that he was we were watching Kentucky basketball a couple years ago, and he was like, Where did you play college basketball at, Dad? And I was like, Well, I did not play basketball anywhere at all. He's like, Really? I was like, Yeah, anyway. So just funny that kids have this and so, but I was not I played tennis my senior year, that was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_05That was that sounds fun. I enjoyed it. I got a trophy.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
SPEAKER_05Yep. Most improved player. Nice because I started from nothing. I won my first like seven matches of the year, and they put started putting me against harder people, so but it was fun. I enjoyed tennis.
SPEAKER_02I still I can't even play like I missed the ball every time. It was right over for tennis. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's probably the racket's fault, not yours.
SPEAKER_02True.
SPEAKER_05But anyway, I just wanted to see if you guys played sports and stuff. But yes, good idea, good things.
SPEAKER_02All right, yeah, just competitive chill eating. I didn't even do this high school tree leading, I just did competitive. So it was like the like the all-star stuff, like winter competitions.
SPEAKER_05I did not know that. Yeah, see, now we're learning about each other. Look at us, friends.
SPEAKER_02Friends, friends are friends, but I did not try to replace you guys.
SPEAKER_05Drew was just here for one day and we got rid of him.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, I was driving and I'm like listening, and I'm like, what is this?
SPEAKER_05So Drew, he came on to do the bonus episode. We did it on April Fools to kind of be really silly about beans and stuff. Yeah, my mom was like, I thought the episode was so good. Like, you guys were they related it to beans, and I was like, Yeah, we did. It was kind of an April Fool's joke. And she's like, I did not get that. She's like, just youth and children's pastors. So I thought you were just trying to relate to kids. I was like, Yeah, that's what it was. But that was pretty fun. That's cute. I enjoyed Drew's company. Might have to bring him back on and join us one day, but fine. To get him his own microphone so he doesn't rub his mustache on yours again.
unknownOn mine.
SPEAKER_01I knew it. I knew it would be on mine.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, he used yours, so but yeah. Uh so that's a little bit about what's going on in our lives. We talked about baseball and sports and jokes and food, apparently. We made the Italians mad. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02We love Italians.
SPEAKER_05Yes, we love all the people. All right, today we're gonna finish up this. We've the last, I don't know, several episodes, several episodes we've been talking about. Started with heaven, and then we went to angels, and that led into more of like a spiritual
Why Talk About Giants
SPEAKER_05realm type of conversation, and then we talked about that last time a little bit. And so these are kind of deeper topics that we talk about, and just wanted to, you know, maybe it's not your thing, maybe it's not the maybe you're not that interested in these small little details that throughout the the main story of the Bible. There's all these side shoots, side branches, and and things that you can kind of go off on on your own if you're interested in these kind of things. But so this will be the last time we talk about spiritual realm type stuff and that kind of topic. And then next week we're gonna do what's the deal with something. But we'll talk about that and uh figure it out, and but we'll move on to a different type of topic next week. So, but today I wanted to kind of do what's the deal with giants in the Bible, because I don't know, I think it's really interesting to me. So, like I said, if you don't think this is interesting, you can just you know listen to the next episode or listen to this one and maybe be like, uh, he's kind of crazy. But uh I'll I'll just kind of talk about my view on a few things and what I've learned in studying the Bible and studying this specific topic. So, talked about angels, talked about other spiritual beings, I guess, in the spiritual realm. Are you gonna be okay with your microphone? Yeah, okay. We've got these microphone arms and they just kind of hang in front of us, and now Ashley's fell off. She's holding this big arm.
SPEAKER_01But uh bad I feel bad of how comfortable I am, how uncomfortable you are right now. Okay, doing it for the people.
SPEAKER_05This is for you. So and so giants are in the Bible. We talked about like who's the most famous giant in the Bible?
SPEAKER_00Goliath.
SPEAKER_05Goliath, thank you. I was gonna say, please know this.
SPEAKER_01Um I went to say a different one, I think.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well, who is your famous giant in the Bible?
SPEAKER_01Wait, is it like oh, you asked me so quick.
SPEAKER_05Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_01We just talked about him the other day.
SPEAKER_05Okay, sorry. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Who was it?
SPEAKER_05I don't know who I don't know what you're talking about. I thought everybody knows Goliath, though. Like David and Goliath, big giant guy, big warrior guy, and they go out and fight. And so, and then we see later on David hunts down other giants with his mighty men. Those are some interesting stories of David and his adventures. And so we got this idea of like, well, giants, like, what are we talking about here? Is it like real giants? Is it just kind of talk about just big people? What where did they come from? What are they doing? And so I kind of I've always loved David, and I've always loved the story of David and Goliath, and and kind of sent me down a little uh I don't know, a little trail of giants in the Bible because I thought it was interesting. Then what are we talking about here? And then I discovered some more stuff as I studied that kind of led me to the more spiritual realm side or the supernatural part of the old testament. So I just want to share that with you guys as we move on, because last time we talked about angels and spiritual beings, and then we talked about well, what about the bad ones? And so I'll talk a little bit about the the bad side of spiritual beings today, and kind of my thoughts and my takes on uh a few of these things. And so to get the giants, you see kind of you ever heard of the word Nephilim before?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_05So you what do you think
Genesis 6 And The Nephilim
SPEAKER_05it means?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a hybrid.
SPEAKER_05Oh, a hybrid. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh like or wait, no, no, sorry. They are they are yeah, hybrid? Okay, I got that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because they're the ones that came down and the angels came down and is that right? The angels came down and mated with the women, or the human women.
SPEAKER_05All right. So this is what we'll start our story with because Nephilim is is the giants themselves. All right. So, and where did they come from? The Bible doesn't the Bible mentions them in Genesis chapter six, and it mentions them one other place in numbers, and that's kind of all we get a little bit about them. And so it's like I said, this is one of those kind of you know, not a whole lot said about it. There's a little bit there to make you curious, and so where the Bible whispers about things, we shouldn't really get too uh loud about them. And and so, but it is interesting to kind of study it and see what we can take from it and what we can. And so just that was just a quick reminder of you know, take this for what it is, and it's not the most important part of the Bible, but it is in the Bible, so let's talk about it a little bit. So Genesis chapter six. Make sure I'm on the right. Yeah, here we go. One through four. When man began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters are born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were were beautiful and attractive, and they took as them their wives any that they chose. Then the Lord said, My spirit shall not abide in man forever, he is flesh, his days will be a hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the daughters of man, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. So that's really the little passage there. And so as I was going back a few years ago and just kind of starting from the beginning and reading through Genesis, this one caught my eye again. And so it's been a few years that I've been looking at this kind of stuff. I'm like, well, this is kind of a weird story. Like Nephilim, what's that? So that took me down a little trail. I was like, well, I'll find out what that means. And then the part where we'll talk about the spiritual kind of aspect of this is sons of God. All right, and so this is a debated term, and it says the sons of God came down and they took the daughters of Men for wives, any that they so choose, because they were found them very attractive. So in history, there's three usually three views of what this could possibly mean. So the first view that people take is called the Sethite view, and mentions that these godly men were just from the line of Seth, and the daughters of men were from the line of Cain. And it was like people that loved God and people who were against God came together and got married and started families together. And they weren't, you know, they were good and bad, air quotes, I guess you could say people. Um and so that's what people will go with for that one, and that's kind of the uh one viewpoint that you can take, and then you have another viewpoint where the sons of God are spiritual beings, and it's talking about angelic beings, and they come down and they see that humanity is they see that the women are beautiful and they take for them up wives that they want. And then the last one that we kind of see that could be where did it go? Well, I lost the third view. The third view is that these were just kind of like kingly rulers, people that were high power, and they abused their power and took for them wives that they wanted. So all these views are people hold these different types of views. I've studied them, I look at them. The one that makes the most sense to me is spiritual beings, and angelic beings came down and took for them uh human wives. You follow me so far?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_05So you can go into these. I'm not gonna, I mean, if we believe the other one, that's fine. We can have different opinions, you can interpret these things differently. I'm gonna tell you why I think it's is what it is. The term sons of God is in Hebrew, it's Bene Elohim. All right, a little nerdy Hebrew there for you. But anytime you see that in the Old Testament, anywhere that phrase pops up, we're talking about spiritual beings. Everywhere else in the Old Testament, anywhere else in Hebrew where it says sons of God in that phrase, it's talking about spiritual beings. And so, for example, in the book of Job, it says the sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was made. Obviously, before people were made, when God was making everything, the sons of God were shouting for joy. It's a spiritual type of being, all right. And we see this kind of hints and clues throughout that this is a term used specifically for something spiritual. So that's why I kind of don't take the Sethite view of just humans that followed God versus humans that didn't follow God. And then you get to the Nephilim word, and so Nephilim, most people say literally translate to fallen ones, all right. And so when sons of God came and took human wives and they reproduced and had babies, they called them the Nephilim. They called them these, and when it's translated into the Greek later on, they used it as the word gigantes, giants, all right. And so that's where we get this idea of giants coming in. And so when you all this is pretty interesting, when uh when you ask an Israelite person or a Jewish person around the time of Christ, even like hundreds years before, or around up to his point, like why is the world the way it is? They would say, Oh, well, if I ask you why the world is the way it is, what would you say?
SPEAKER_00Because of evil. Because of people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, where did evil first come from?
SPEAKER_00The fallen.
SPEAKER_05But when was the fall? Before in the Bible, the first fall is what usually that we talk about the fall.
SPEAKER_01Adam.
SPEAKER_05Adam and Eve at the tree, taking the eat the fruit. If you ask a person in ancient Israel what what why the world is the way it is, they would have three rebellions. All right. They would have the rebellion in the garden, Adam and Eve rebelling against God, taking the fruit. We talked about the other one last time where I talked about the Tower of Babel and how God divided the nations amongst the gods, the spiritual beings on his divine counsel. And then there's another third rebellion, and this is it, where angels rebel
Three Rebellions And “Afterward” Clues
SPEAKER_05and come down and take human lives. So there's three things that you know, three rebellions at the beginning of the Bible that happen in this view, and that is why things are the way they are in the very beginning. So that's a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02What do you think it means in that verse that you read that that says they were there then and they were there after?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, there's some other theories on this too. Interesting, because they say the Nephilim were there in those days and then afterwards, and then we see in Numbers where Israelites are about to go into Canaan and they see a people and they're terrified of them, and they mention the Nephilim again. They're like, Oh, those are the descendants of the Nephilim. And so that's Caleb and Joshua and the spies, where they spy out the land, and like, oh, these people are huge. We're like grasshoppers compared to them. And so you see this idea, and so you're like, and Genesis 6 says they were there then and they were there afterwards. So the the leading theory is that you know this this happened again, pro possibly the idea that angels came down again after the flood and started to do it again. That's that's a if you if you're really into this topic and this kind of thing, you can go on that on your own and study it out. Because but there are different theories of what that means by that, but somehow, you know, they were there then and they were kind of around afterwards, too.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05And so we see that, and we see this idea that you know, and the other reason I don't take a human view of sons of God is because Seth's kids and and Cain's kids, you know, they come together, they don't produce giants or people of renown. There's nothing special about you know an offspring of two other people, and so I see this idea, and and so some of the verses I wanted to bring up, Job. Once again, we see several times in Job where it says sons of God, and it's talking about heavenly beings, talks about the creation, and then also in Job 1 and 2, it says one day the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And so you see this idea of God's in his council, his spiritual beings around him, angel, angelic beings or whatever you want to call them. And it says the sons of God are there, and that's a heavenly scene. And so I see sons of God once again, a spiritual realm type of type of being. And so uh we see that, and then we have New Testament stuff on this too, and this is kind of some of the weird stuff in the New Testament. You okay, Brittany? Yes, you need to call Trump. So 2 Peter 2, 4 says, For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment. So Peter, and then right after that, he goes and talks about he references the flood again. He talks about Noah and some other stuff from that time period. And so Peter's mentioning angels sinning, angels falling, and some in some capacity. Peter is links the sinning angels to the time of the flood, right after that. And then Jude also says this, and the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling places, these he kept in darkness bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great day. All right, so we got this idea of Jude and Peter have a story in their head of angels rebelling, not staying where they're supposed to, angels sinning, angels, spiritual beings have free will, like we do. They can choose different things. And so in Genesis 6, you see spiritual beings choosing to rebel against God in this way, not staying where they're supposed to. God made the spiritual realm for them and the earthly realm for us. And so they've abandoned what they were supposed to be doing, and they came down and took human wives again. And so this idea of Genesis, it replays because the first rebellion is what? Eve sees the fruit is good and pleasing, and she takes it. And now you see the spiritual side of this in Genesis 6, whereas the angels see beautiful women and they take for them wives that they want for themselves. And so I don't know if you can kind of see the dual spiritual, the dual rebellions happening play out human rebellion and spiritual rebellion at the same time. Does that make sense so far?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It does.
SPEAKER_05Okay, just making sure. So then we get this giant connection, and we get the Nephilim, and you get the storyline of the giants and in the Old Testament, and it's just really interesting to me. And you get, like I said, in Numbers 13, we saw the Nephilim there. These were the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim. We seem like grasshoppers in our in our own eyes, and so they they reference the Nephilim. They have this idea of these, you know, hybrid type beings. And so Amos 2, 9, yet I destroyed the Amorites before them, though they were as tall as the cedars and strong as oaks. So throughout the Old Testament, you see these people that the Israelites come up against, and they're kind of big warrior people. And they could just be using hyperbole in that kind of one, like as tall as cedars and as strong as oaks, but talking about the same type of people that have been referenced as giants before. So just really interesting to me. And then to kind of bring this back to the New Testament, once again, Peter, once again, he says, Jesus went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits, to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah. And so this is a kind of a controversial verse of who did Jesus go and speak to? And Peter seems to say Jesus went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits, and then he links it to the times of Noah again. So these are the spirits that are trapped, the rebellious spiritual beings that came down, left where they're supposed to, and you know, trapped in Tartarus. And so uh you get this idea of Peter's once again going back to the story in Genesis 6. So in Genesis 6, you get these quick little verses, and it's like they already know what's happened, and so the reader is supposed to have a little bit of background information already, and that's why we don't get the whole thing there. And then the New Testament writers kind of have this idea, and so uh they were writing and talking about this event in ancient Israel, and they wrote down other stuff, and they wrote down all these things, even stuff that we don't even have in the Bible. So they wrote and they were talking about the stuff, and so there's traditions, and it seems like they just it seems like Genesis 6, 1 through 4 is just a little side note where he's writing, he's like, Oh yeah, they're gonna know who the sons of God, they're gonna know the story already, and we'll just mention it here. And so we have that view, and so that's kind of where this the deal with giants, like where they come from. Genesis six is a good start if you're interested in this kind of thing. That gives you kind of the background, and it once again shows the rebellious nature of God's creation, human and you know, spiritual. And and kind of what does this mean for the big picture? Just shows that from the very beginning there's always been forces at play and different different ideas and different rebellions, and then you get Paul talking about things like our enemies not against human flesh and blood, it's against powers and rulers and authorities
Peter Jude And The Imprisoned Spirits
SPEAKER_05of the unseen world. And he he has this, I think he has these kind of things in mind, these kind of stories that we kind of just read over really fast. And and so the supernatural things in the old testament and in the Bible itself are really interesting for me, and it kind of helps me build my big picture story of the Bible uh in different ways. And like it seems weird, like when I first like supernatural stuff, like, oh yeah, we got angels and God and and some supernatural things and miracles and things like that, and then we get into this more weird stuff, and I I tell myself, I'm like, well, our whole faith is based around what Jesus being born of a virgin and then being resurrected from the dead. You don't get much more supernatural than that. Right. Like, if I can if I do believe that as things happen, if I can believe those things happen, that I can believe other supernatural things that may be you know hard to explain or hard to understand doesn't mean they didn't happen or they're not real things. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Any questions real fast before I you guys haven't really no?
SPEAKER_01It's in it's interesting. I was gonna say we're just listening.
SPEAKER_05Okay. But so to get into this real quick, I wanted to deal with so Nephilim giants, hybrid, half human, half spiritual. And you're like, well, you know, all these it raises a bunch of questions that we're not gonna get into on the podcast. I can't answer all the questions, but it just kind of gets you to thinking about some of the things we kind of gloss over, or maybe the things we haven't really thought about before. But one cool thing I think of is when we see Jesus dealing with demons in the gospels, they're usually called unclean spirits. Uh he's like, you know, casting out unclean spirits, casting out these unclean things that we call demons. All right. And here's one of the cool theories that's out there that I kind of buy into for the most part that unclean is, you know, this idea of something that shouldn't be. It's not how it's supposed to be. And so there's some scholarly evidence and some people that are a lot smarter than me that I've studied and say, well, the demons are disembodied spirits of the giants or the Nephilim. And so consider half and half, you got angelic beings coming down and humans, and they make an offspring, and it's not really human, it's not really spiritual beings. So when they died, spirits have nowhere to go, and so they kind of roam the earth looking for things to attach onto. And you get this idea of unclean spirits or demons being these disembodied things, and so which seems right because those unclean spirits and things are different than the rebellious angels, because we know what happens to those. Peter says those rebellious angels are now in chains and darkness in in some place, some spiritual place. And so we know what happened to those, but uh, demons are still something that Jesus deals with, and he goes out and he he casts out unclean spirits, and so there's some uh cool research and some cool language things that make you think those demons were the spirits of the Nephilim giants. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_02I have heard that before. You've heard that before? Okay, I have not.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Well, what does you like reaction? What do you think?
SPEAKER_01I mean crazy. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, I guess I just always I mean, not that I've ever really looked into it, but I always just assumed that all of the fallen angels just that's what they did. They just became demons. But I guess I didn't really think about it or look too much into it. It's just what I assumed.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and and some of like we get hints and glimpses of these types of things in scripture, but we don't get the I think like I like we've said before, it's not the it's not the concern of the Bible to tell us all these things about the unseen realm or the spiritual world, uh, because it's not the focuses between humans and God in the Bible. That's the story about how Jesus is coming to redeem us and things like that. But get that overlap sometimes of the weirdness or the weird stuff or the you know, yeah, demons and angels, and so it is there and it's real and it's it's something. And then I just go back to Paul, like he he talks about the principalities and authorities and rulers, and when he uses that language, it goes back to this spiritual realm type things. Our enemy is not other human beings, it's it's deeper than that, it's powers that we can't see in the unseen world. And so I think it's just interesting to kind of know more about this type of thing, even when it seems really weird and really strange, and you're like angels and humans and having wives and they're having babies, and it's it's sounds really weird. When that's what I first thought when I was finding that, and I was like, Well, let's look into it, and then really interesting how it connects to the rest of the story, big picture, and and Jesus going down and proclaiming victory over the spirit. He's like, Yeah, uh every the creation's mine, and you guys tried to mess it up, but I I I'm victorious now. I I've gone and I've reclaimed all the nations and I have authority over everything, including you. And there's one point, real quick, when Jesus is in the gospel and
Are Demons The Giants’ Spirits
SPEAKER_05he's um uh he's talking, he comes across these unclean spirits, and I lost that part. Where did it go? Hold on. Getting it back. Matthew 8 29. He says that this is the demon talking back to Jesus. He says, What do you want with us, son of God? The demon shouted, Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time? And so they know that they're doomed spirits waiting for a final judgment because they don't belong in this realm anymore. And so the kind of conversation is the hints back to these other different things that I think of. They know who Jesus is, they know his purpose, and so they're uh and then when he finally does go to the cross and and comes back from death and and comes back from and takes on sin and defeats it and defeats death, he goes and proclaims to rebellious spirits that you did your best, but I'm victorious. I am I have all authority over everything now, including spiritual realm, earthly realm, everything. And so I just find it the topic interesting. I find it, I find the weird things in scripture to be worth looking into a little bit. If it's if it seems really strange and weird, it probably plays a role in the story some somehow. I mean, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that unclean spirits still to this day roam around or inhabit people?
SPEAKER_05That's I've thought about that too. I don't know, I haven't really I've been it's part of the next part of my study on all this stuff, I guess, in my free time, but I haven't had a lot of free time recently to study some of this other extra stuff. But yeah, I think if you go with that view of demons, then I think they're they're still active. They're still and I don't think they're as active as much in American culture or the American church because they don't need to be. It seems, or else, you know, we don't need to be distracted as much because we're good enough distracting ourselves, or or maybe maybe maybe there is, and we just blow it off as something else. And so, but I do know that stories from around the world, you know, different cultures, different areas they deal with these demonic, unclean spirits still to this day. Like I had a friend that just went to Thailand a month ago and he was doing some mission work over there, and so he's got some stories of you know, the spiritual is much more real to other cultures around the world, it's much more part of their everyday life, unlike you know, American culture where the supernatural or the the the spiritual world is kind of yeah, what we take we're even for Christians, like we just come to church and we do our thing, and and so I I think that yeah, I think it's still happening today. That's all I can all I can really speak on, I guess. I'm not really qualified for deeper than that. That's my thoughts on it.
SPEAKER_02I will say that that verse you talked about when Jesus was talking to the demons and they like they they recognized him, they knew exactly who he was. That to me is just a sign that this walk as a Christian is more than just knowing the name of Jesus. You can know who he is, but so do the demons. Yeah, like what are you living for?
SPEAKER_05The New Testament talked about these things. They're like, you know, even demons and and Satan, they believe God, they believe he's real, they believe that all these things are there, and it doesn't so what you believe God's real. That's the the point is do you trust him? Right, do you want to be on his side or or not? And do you believe that he knows more than you do? So so yeah, the uh the idea of the demons knowing who he is and and being afraid of him, they were like, Oh shoot, it's this guy. What are you doing here? Like, I think they were surprised to see him as a human.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because we see in the New Testament some other hints of, you know, well, Paul writes, if the rulers and authorities had known uh what Jesus would accomplish on the cross and in his death, they wouldn't have put him on the cross. I think it was a sneak attack. Right. But that's just my my view of like, holy crap, Jesus, what are you doing here? Like, this is the Son of God. Are you what are they? They were confused. They're like, Is it are you coming to torture us before it's time? Like they have this idea of like we still have some stuff to do, and so the interesting stuff, you know, and just kind of the realness of step back and look and be like, Yeah, Jesus dealt with these kind of things, and there is a spiritual battle, I guess you could say, going on. And Paul talks about that and and kind of what to do, and kind of gives us a list of defensive things to keep ourselves protected. We're not supposed to go hunting these things, we're not supposed to go look for demons, we're not supposed to go searching out evil. Jesus already took care of that part, but it's still around, and so we have to be able to defend ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_05You see that, and so that's where it kind of gets into the practical areas of this talking about the spiritual realm, talking about this topic.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, I'm just still like trying to wrap my brain around.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm sure people listening maybe never heard that before.
SPEAKER_01Well, I and I'm thinking, how did okay, so when Jesus had the interaction with the with the demon.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. He's several this is just one that I pulled up, but he's had several before.
SPEAKER_01Um Well, maybe I maybe I can answer that question myself because I was thinking, okay, if they were Nephilim that were here, and then how do they know? Like when do they know who Jesus is? Do they know it because their father is a spiritual being?
SPEAKER_05Probably.
SPEAKER_01Or do they know it because after they've, you know, died, then they're part of a realm that we can't see and then know things.
SPEAKER_05I don't really know how that worked out.
SPEAKER_01That's just kind of where my interest is sparking.
SPEAKER_05Not that we'll ever know the answer to it, but she's always never surprised me with your like I'm usually I'm like, people ask questions,
Spiritual Battle And Next Topic Tease
SPEAKER_05I'm like, oh, I've thought about that too. And then Brittany's like, what about this? I'm like, I've never thought about that before. But good questions. I I like those kind of questions.
SPEAKER_01So those are that's kind of what I'm thinking about because obviously they knew as soon as he stepped foot on the ground with them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and maybe maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're not descendants of Nephilim, maybe they're something else entirely. I just add the clues up, and that's where I've gotten to so far as I've gone through this, be like this makes sense the way they talk about it, and kind of putting some other resources together and stuff. But so yeah, that's a little bit about that. I think we've talked about the spiritual realm for enough for people. It's it is interesting, and there are some weird things that happen in scripture. And so just because they're weird, don't ignore them, don't be afraid of them. Just kind of if if you if you're interested in it and you want to know more, then you can. There's resources and stuff, you know, do a study on it. That's how I learned all this stuff. It's because I was just reading my Bible. I was like, that's weird. What does that mean? And then answered one question, but then got four more, and I ended up Nephilim and giants and spiritual realm and demons and stuff like that. So just because it's weird doesn't mean we should ignore it or not ask questions about it. So that's really the main thing from these talks, these last few podcast episodes. But there you go.
SPEAKER_01It was a good little series, good little series, and then we'll move on to a next one.
SPEAKER_05I think I want to do more about maybe church history or denominations or specifically rush church stuff, or maybe why church is important. Maybe. So we'll see how that plays out in the next one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, someone did ask why there's so many different denominations.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and there was another question I got that we got in our box out there. It was about, well, do I really have to come to church? Or like, what is what does coming to church do for me?
SPEAKER_01I forget how it's worded, but it was a I'm just laughing at the person that's like, do I really need to be here? It wasn't there wasn't what it wasn't like that.
SPEAKER_05It wasn't, it wasn't, it was worded in a way of like it was more of a curiosity kind of thing. So I forget I wish I had it with me, but anyway, I want to maybe we'll do that. Maybe some a little bit of church history and then into Rush Church and what kind of denomination we are, what do we what do we do, and kind of things like that.
SPEAKER_02So who are we? Maybe we'll bring a guest on that knows more about the history of Rush Church and stuff, but and kind of just like the not the benefits, but just the the life that you live when you attend a church. It's different, it's different being a part of a community.
SPEAKER_05That's what we'll talk about. I think that's one of the main things. And I had this conversation with Timmy yesterday in the car. We're going to serve at our daily bread food kitchen yesterday. And he's like, you know, some people say they know who God is, but they don't go to church. How's that? I was like, well, some people think they can just know God and then they don't have to go to church. He's like, Well, why? And I was like, well, then we had this more conversation of like, well, I was like, why do you think we have to go to church? And he's like, because we need to know about God. I was like, well, you can read your Bible and know about God. You can do that on your own. He's like, oh yeah, I don't have to go to church. I was like, no, no, no. He was like, well, I guess not. I was like, well, that's not my point. Right. So we talked a little bit more about that, but uh, yeah. So Timmy's getting baptized on Sunday. I'm so excited. He's really pumped about it. So if you see him Sunday, well, he's gonna get baptized.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, first service, right?
SPEAKER_05I think it's gonna be second now. Second.
Baptism Update And Closing Prayer
SPEAKER_05Oh Erica's Erica's family wants to come and they go to the Methodist church up there. Okay. Okay. What do you think?
SPEAKER_02I'll correct my email.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna tell you that. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just I always let the kids' teachers know so they can bring classes in.
SPEAKER_05I think it'll be second because more family can make it here for the second service.
SPEAKER_02So that's nice.
SPEAKER_05I thought so too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a good idea. That's important.
SPEAKER_05All right, let's pray. God, thank you so much for this time. Thanks for the conversations we're able to have and talk about. I thank you for your word. Thank you for scripture. I thank you for all the weird stuff in it. I thank you for just the desire to know you and more about you and who you are through all these different ways. And so thankful for that. Pray for those listening, whatever's going on this week in their lives, be difficult times, exciting times, nervous times, whatever, whatever they may be going through. I know that you know, and I know that you'll be there through all of it. So thank you for Jesus. In his name we pray. Amen. Amen. All right. This is rush hour signing off for this time, and we'll see you next time. Have a great week.